Part I of this interview provided a general introduction to the concept of the Underground Reich. In Part II we opened with a discussion of events in Charlottesville, where Heather Heyer was murdered for participating in a mass protest against Nazis.
Not only did this event raise global awareness of Nazis in America, it provided an opportunity to explore the history of American fascism, and ultimately as we progress in Part III of this interview, American Gladio.
Before we begin, I would like to address a rather surprising response we received, where excerpts from Part II of our interview made mainstream American news. Even more interesting was all this attention was generated by the German Marshall Fund of the United States and their Alliance for Securing Democracy project.
AV: Hugo, would you like to tell us about the response and their strategy of personally attacking you?
HT: It was surprising to see myself slandered in USA Today. First they ignore you then they try to destroy you. I’ve always mocked mainstream media for turning truth upside down but was shocked to see myself branded as part of a Kremlin controlled alt-right propaganda campaign to defend Trump. I’m a black man and a communist. While I’ve always been a friend to Russia, I despise Trump and am not, by any stretch of the imagination, part of a campaign to defend him.
One of our goals in this interview series was to expose the so called “alt-right” fascists trying to rebrand themselves. It was absurd to see my unfunded personal blog compared to Breitbart, a multi-million dollar operation. I was pleased that they quoted my blog (even if completely out of context) warning of hundreds of well armed, well trained fascist groups, including mention of the fascist coup in Ukraine, a truth the mainstream media still censors four years later.
According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, there are currently 917 active hate groups in the US.
USA Today ignore historical facts. Ukraine’s fascist coup was the product of a 70 year alliance between the CIA and the Ukrainian OUN-B, a fascist death squad that joined the Waffen SS during World War 2, then were smuggled out by the Americans and British to eventually be re-settled in Germany, the UK, Canada, and Australia. As the Cold War was ending, they were sent back to Ukraine where they were involved in two coups: one in 2004, the other, much bloodier, in 2014. In Ukraine it is now illegal to criticize the OUN-B or to praise the Soviet Union of which Ukraine was once a part. For the past four years, Ukraine, with NATO support, has been waging a genocidal war on its Russian speaking minorities, murdering, torturing and imprisoning any Ukrainian who dares to oppose them. With a little help from Russia, the people of Donbass smashed the NATO-backed forces sent to crush them in 2014-2015. You can read about it in my blog archives from 2014-2015 and many other places, like the excellent site, Slavyangrad.
Since the CIA launched the fascist coup in Ukraine right after I launched my blog, and just as the anti-Russian hysteria was getting started, I was well aware that I would be labeled a Russian propagandist for trying to cover the war in Ukraine. Since I still follow many pro-Russian twitter accounts and have many pro-Russian followers, I was selected as one of the 600 twitter accounts suspected of being Kremlin controlled bots by the Hamilton 68 project. Since I tweet links to my blog every day, Anti-Imperialist U ended up on the list of top domains. The whole thing is a scam. Some of the biggest names in alternative media are mysteriously missing from their site. They are clearly manipulating the results. It is a watered down version of the ‘prop or not’ campaign which faced litigation when they accused most of the alt-media of being Russian propagandists. Since this time they are also targeting mainstream news outlets like Fox and the BBC, I doubt this will be any more successful.
AV: What does the response of the German Marshall Fund suggest in terms of the significance of the Charlottesville events in the unfolding of the Underground Reich agenda?
HT: Charlottesville exposed the current interlocking fascist groups. We’ll have to revisit them at greater length in future, but it is clear that the more obscure fascist trends I explored in my Underground Reich article were far more relevant to understanding Charlottesville than I suspected. Through our joint research I was able to establish clear connections between where my former studies ended, the 1990’s, up to the present.
AV: I will add the links to what we found in the notes at the end of this segment.
HT: I hope people will explore the links on these groups you have collected so they can familiarize themselves with the face of fascism in 2017.
Fascism is a mutating super-virus and it constantly seeks to camouflage itself in new forms. Like intelligence fronts, fascist groups constantly splinter and rename themselves. It was interesting to see that two of the groups behind Charlottesville were led by people connected to the military. This also highlights the connection between racism and imperialism. Jason Damigo of Identity Evropa (influenced by Thiriart) found inspiration for his racism by the balkanization of Iraq. The Traditionalist Workers Party is styled after Evola and Dugin. Vanguard America, the “left fascist” group that the Charlottesville killer belonged to, is led by another military veteran, Dillin Irizarry. Identity Evropa is the youth wing of the American Freedom Party, a Nazi group close to David Duke, continuing the tradition of disguising fascism as “100% Americanism”. Even the neo-Confederate League of the South drew their inspiration from the fascist Italian Northern League, demonstrating the worldwide connections of even the KKK- linked groups. All of the fascist groups at Charlottesville have since merged into the umbrella group, the Nationalist Alliance, which is the rebranded version of the old Aryan Nations.
Today’s fascists are image-conscious, tech savvy rich kids and college campuses are their main recruiting grounds. They disguise their white supremacy agenda by calling themselves white nationalists, white separatists or traditionalists. Not only are they racists, they also seek to destroy the gains women have made in the 20th century, returning to a sexist, misogynist past.
They’ve replaced shaved heads with new “fash” haircuts and reframe fascism as multiculturalism, referring to themselves as Identitarians, pretending concern for free speech. They have even adopted the rhetoric of “safe spaces.”
Charlottesville was an Iran-Contra-style deep event. The challenge is not to discover what happened, but to follow the trail of the many fascist networks involved. Charlottesville is an example of a favorite fascist terror tactic, the leaderless resistance-style lone wolf attack. This way their groups cannot be blamed. There have been many such attacks over the years and the media and law enforcement often conceal the suspects’ membership in a wider fascist network. Charlottesville also revealed the sympathetic relations between Nazis and police. The key task now is to uncover the funding and possible government connections of these groups.
AV: In the context of our interviews to expose the Underground Reich, we have certainly provoked them into revealing a great deal about themselves. As for government connections, I found if of interest that Senator Mark Warner sponsored S.J.Res.49,
“A joint resolution condemning the violence and domestic terrorist attack that took place during events between August 11 and August 12, 2017 in Charlottesville, Virginia, recognizing the first responders who lost their lives while monitoring the events, offering deepest condolences to the families and friends of those individuals who were killed and deepest sympathies and support to those individuals who were injured by the violence, expressing support for the Charlottesville community, rejecting White nationalists, White supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, and other hate groups, and urging the President and the President’s Cabinet to use all available resources to address the threats posed by those groups.”
While this appears to be a positive initiative, it is not likely to be passed. Fascists have always been embedded in the US government. An article on the persecution of Assata Shakur published in 1998 exposed Nazis in the New Jersey State Police.
Can we look more closely now at the German Marshall Fund of the United States, who they really are, their history and alliances?
HT: Yes, now that I’ve had a chance to defend myself against the slanders of USA Today, and have said my piece on Ukraine, we can get down to business. In part 2 of our interview, I mentioned that the CIA used Gehlen Organization-controlled German NGOs as fronts to funnel money to their psychological warfare operations. It was amusing that one of the most infamous of these, the German Marshall Fund, should be behind this USA Today story. Its predecessor, the Marshall Plan Fund which helped the US purchase the loyalty of Western Europe, was a CIA front. Clandestinely, the MPF (M-Fund) allowed the CIA and OPC to legally (off-the-books) finance both their covert war on the Soviet Union and their interference in European politics, through bribing politicians, rigging elections, effectively destroying the once strong European left.
In the tradition of the M-Fund, the German Marshall Fund (founded in 1972) was involved in financing Croatian fascists and Al Qaeda to break up Yugoslavia in the 1990’s. It was also involved in the recent coup in Ukraine.
NGOs like the German Marshall Fund rely on the ignorance of the general public in order to maintain their deception of lawful benevolence. Thus they would do well to avoid the attention of anti-fascist researchers like us.
Even a cursory examination of their funders reveals a host of sinister red flags exposing both the hand of the CIA and the Underground Reich – not only its German branches, but its Italian and Japanese ones as well. The German Marshall Fund receives money from the US State Department, NATO and the infamous CIA front, USAID. As for the Underground Reich connections, it’s also funded by the Fritz Thyssen Foundation. The Thyssen family funded Hitler’s rise to power, merged with the Krupp arms merchants, and are suspected of being part of the Bormann Network. Then there is the misnamed Sasakawa Peace Foundation. Ryoichi Sasakawa made a fortune during World War 2 looting China for materials for the Japanese war machine that killed 20 million Chinese, and by controlling the heroin market. After the war Sasakawa was hired by the CIA. He escaped punishment for his crimes and loved to brag that he was the world’s richest fascist. He ran the Yakuza and controlled Japanese politics for decades, bribing politicians for the CIA. He oversaw the infamous M-Fund money gained from the 100’s of billions in gold the Japanese looted during the war that the CIA helped them hide. (See: Gold Warriors, by Sterling and Peggy Seagrave)
One could spend a year studying all the perverse connections of the German Marshall Fund. I’ve only mentioned a few examples. I encourage anyone interested in exposing the CIA or the Underground Reich to study the German Marshall Fund closely. Investigate its past and present board of trustees that include people like neo-con Bill Kristol, or Marc Grossman, who Sibel Edmonds identified as one of the most sinister and corrupt of the Gladio B network of operatives. Gladio B run Al Qaeda and use the proceeds of the heroin trade to bribe American politicians, just like Sasakawa bribed Japanese politicians.
AV: Any attempt at future attacks or provocation from the Underground Reich will only serve our interests, which is to expose them.
With all that we have discovered about them up to this point, what are your conclusions about their Alliance for Securing Democracy?
What my research revealed is they not only operate in foreign countries to destabilize them, staging coups under the banner of “democratization”, they run covert operations on US soil against American civilians, conducting mass surveillance of activists and social movement leaders, engaging in perception management through propaganda and promotion of fake news, and the waging of psychological war and cyber-war against the general populace. As an active branch of the US intelligence apparatus and NATO, they target American civilians with impunity, just as often, and with as much intensity and brutally as they target foreign leaders and nations.
Why are the American people not outraged?
HT: I’m sure most Americans have never even heard of it. In the typical style of the empire of chaos, they plot to “secure democracy” by destroying it. Funded by fascists like the Thyssens and the Sasakawa family, this is no surprise. They hope to discredit anyone working for peace or those who oppose empire, defaming them as nothing more than Russian propagandists intent on destroying democracy. They are doubtless plotting ways to ban websites like ours from the Internet. NGOs like this buy reporters, influence politicians, and overthrow governments to install fascist regimes.
AV: One would think Americans would pay attention to anything that involves covert operations against American citizens on US soil.
How has the German Marshall Fund – Alliance for Securing Democracy’s obsession with Russia become an aggressive assault on political discourse in America? What are the implications?
HT: Political discourse in America is already pretty much dead and has been since the 1990’s. Everyone who opposes capitalism or imperialism is barred from having any voice in mainstream media. That’s why I was shocked to see myself mentioned in USA Today. Even experts like Douglas Valentine or Peter Dale Scott are never permitted on American TV. On the other hand, mainstream media actively promote fascists like Richard Spencer, which should tell you something about American political discourse being confined to choices between crypto-fascists and overt fascists.
One of the most popular news sites, Vice, was founded by fascists, and is in love with both the Ukrainian Nazis and ISIS, which it attempts to promote to America’s nihilistic hipsters. Certain Western youth welcome horror with joy as a temporary release from the boredom of suburban nihilism, and this is where the Underground Reich hopes to find a new generation of fresh recruits.
AV: Western culture is based on genocide in many forms, including the annihilation of the authentic self. Decades of social engineering have created the fertile psychological ground which stultifies life so that death cults, fascism and terrorism could flourish, which involved inculcating a culture of narcissists and nihilists.
American Gladio. How far back do its origins go?
HT: America has had its own fascist groups constantly emerging from World War I onwards. In the wake of the American defeat in Vietnam and the limited gains of the Civil Rights Movement, there was an increasing focus on paramilitary training among American Nazis.
AV: African and Indigenous American revolutionary groups also became more militant, such as the Black Panthers, the Black Liberation Army and the American Indian Movement.
Fascists are always embedded in the military and intelligence apparatus, whereas the armed revolutionary movements operate on the outside, universally perceived as a threat to fascist hegemony, targeted by official governments through their state law enforcement and military.
What are your thoughts on this based on your findings?
HT: Most American fascist groups of the 1950’s and 1960’s were founded by or connected to General MacArthur’s inner circle during the Cold War, a bizarre fact Dave Emory discovered in the 1980’s and explains in his classic Aryan Nations episodes. They were in essence, American Gladio.
In the 1970’s they adapted and modernized their message, often in a parody of the Civil Rights Movement. David Duke was a pioneer in this, although he borrowed the ideas of European fascist like Thiriart and de Benoist, which Le Pen managed to popularize in France. Instead of talking openly about their racist ideas, they created myths of white victimhood and claimed they were trying to preserve Christianity and European culture. They created a brand of fascism that could be deceitfully promoted under the guise of promoting racial diversity. There is no doubt European culture is in decline, but this is the result of American pop culture dominating the planet which caters to the lowest common denominator. Before I began what amounts to my war on Western civilization, I spent years reading the classics. I would advise people to read a French or Russian novel, go to an art museum, watch a foreign film or listen to an opera, instead of joining a Nazi organization. People choose to embrace the ugliest, bestial side of the West – fascism and white supremacy. Instead of broadening their horizons, they narrow them by dehumanizing themselves. Racism is a handicap like blindness because it prevents us from recognizing our common humanity.
AV: The choice to embrace the lowest, most barbaric qualities is a result of decades of colonization, enculturation, combined with the intellectual laziness, moral ineptitude, even psychopathic tendencies of individuals. Not all living under empire succumb, which is encouraging.
Let’s explore Thiriart and de Benoist. Given their immense influence, what were their connections to the government, military and intelligence apparatus?
HT: First I should point out that David Duke is almost certainly a CIA agent. He served in Laos and his dad worked for the US State Department. One of the reasons Dave Emory likes Martin A. Lee’s “Beast Reawakens” and Kevin Coogan’s “Dreamer of the Day,” is that they both go into fascism’s paradoxical side. It’s not just their weapons, training, and funding that people underestimate, but the intellectual sophistication and complexity of fascism. There is much more to fascism than Adolf Hitler, although in his time he came to dominate the movement. Hitler, it should be remembered, did not create fascism.
Before Mussolini in Italy there was Salazar in Portugal in 1914, Admiral Horthy in Hungary in 1919, and in Russia, fascist death squads operated under the Czars. America’s homegrown breed of fascism predates the Civil War. Martin A. Lee discusses the close ties of homegrown fascists like the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) to their German counterparts. The KKK traveled to Europe to teach cross burnings while German Nazis traveled to the US to train the militia movement, and were tied to the Oklahoma city bombing, the most dramatic recent example of homegrown fascist terrorism.
Fascist thugs who march in the streets are only one aspect of the movement. Fascist intellectuals, like de Benoist and Thiriart, have been largely ignored by media and academia.
Lee and Coogan discuss them and others extensively in their books. So it is dangerous to believe that all fascists are uneducated street thugs. These are only the foot soldiers. Fascism also includes people like Carl Jung, Zivek and film director David Lynch. There is a fascist underbelly to both literature and pop culture especially in rock music and genres like science-fiction and fantasy.
The Belgian, Jean Francois Thiriart, began his career as a socialist but quickly became a fascist, joining the pro-Nazi National Legion, later trained as a commando by the Germans. After the war he was imprisoned for three years as a collaborator but became part of the Undergound Reich after his release, meeting frequently with Otto Skorzeny, one of the top leaders. After Belgium lost its colony in the Congo where it had carried out mass murder for decades, with at least 10 million killed, Thiriart organized a movement to get Belgium to reconquer the Congo. He also formed a group to support the fascist French OAS, which wanted France to continue fighting its war against Algerian independence. However, after it became clear that Europe had lost its African colonies, Thiriart reversed course. Seeking to appeal to the radical youth of the 60’s and 70’s, he revised his fascist movement, copying existing revolutionary and national liberation groups.
AV: Is this where we see the creation of shadow or duplicate organizations that impersonate the real? If so, did this concept originate with Thiriart?
HT: Thiriart argued that Europe was under American occupation (he was right) and paradoxically argued that it must ally with the Third World against NATO. Thus he became a model for what on the surface seemed a sort of anti-imperialist brand of fascism.
AV: But, was he the originator of this shadow/duplicate creation strategy?
HT: Actually, Thiriart’s morphing of fascism is a much older strategy. In America there was the Renaissance Party of James Madole, which had supported Third World national liberation movements in the 1950’s and 1960’s, and before him, there was the infamous Francis Parker Yockey, who was Thiriart’s primary inspiration. Yockey sought to form an alliance with the Soviet Union against America.
As I discussed in my Underground Reich article, this current of fascism has its roots in the work of Karl Haushofer, the father of geo-politics in Germany. Haushofer created a Eurasianist brand of fascism that sought a strategic alliance with both the Third World and the Soviet Union. There was also the National Bolshevik Movement in Germany. After the war, they created another strand of fascism that sought to imitate communism. In this way, fascists camouflage themselves as their opposites. Dugin was inspired by fascists like Thiriart to create his own fourth position fascism. Within the SS there was tension between pan-European fascism and Northern European fascism, between scientific racism and spiritual racism.
One other fascinating detail on Thiriart was published in an interview from the 1970’s that Martin A. Lee quotes, where he outlined his strategy which was identical to NATO’s strategy for the Cold War – form an alliance with China to pressure the USSR and push for the liberation of Eastern Europe – all of which later came to pass.
AV: That does not surprise me given that NATO is a Nazi fascist organization.
HT: Yes. Then we have the French de Benoist who laid out a strategy for the 21st century involving dividing the world into tiny ethnic statelets in the name of preserving local cultures.
AV: The same as Dugin’s plan of creating separated ethnic blocs in the coming Eurasian Union to maintain “racial purity”.
HT: Yes, and de Benoist’s strategy was essentially a global Yinon Plan, the infamous Israeli plot for breaking up the Middle East, which continues to be the blueprint for the wars in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, and Syria.
De Benoist initially began as a more conventional fascist and imperialist. He joined Jeune Nation, a fascist group supporting French colonialism in Algeria, and the Nazi Europe Action that published Otto Skorzeny in French and backed the American war in Vietnam. Then he began his mutation, abandoning scientific racism for spiritual racism. He founded GRECE which promoted proto-fascist German philosophers like Ernst Junger and Oswald Spengler. He sought to revive paganism, just as some of the Nazis did, drawing inspiration from Julius Evola, the occultist and spiritual guru to some of the most notorious of Italy’s Gladio terrorists. Like Thiriart, he sought alliances with the Third World. He began to promote his brand of fascism, Ethnopluralism, and sought to create a “Europe of a hundred flags”. Like Thiriart, de Benoist’s ideas served the very interests he claimed to oppose, since breaking Europe into tiny weak states would render them helpless to resist multinational corporations, and no place in Europe is more thoroughly colonized than the former Yugoslavia, which has been balkanized. De Benoist was another inspiration for Dugin of course, but he also inspired Le Pen in the 1980’s, who promoted his breed of fascism under the banner of protecting French culture. Interestingly, de Benoist opposed this attempt at co-option. His Ethnopluralism had evolved past Le Pen’s simplistic anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric, although he remained thoroughly rooted in fascism and continued to popularize lesser known fascist thinkers in French media while maintaining contacts with Europe’s fascist networks. These are only two of many fascist ideologues unknown to the general public but increasing popular in the 21st century.
AV: Getting back to American Gladio…
HT: When I was studying Gladio I found it useful to divide Gladio countries into three stages like a disease. Stage one would be a country like Norway where the Gladio network was present but had minimal impact, like a carrier with no symptoms. Stage two would be a country like Italy, where the Gladio networks are very active and have impunity for their crimes. While they were not permitted to fully seize power, they completely infiltrated the police and military. America and postwar Germany would be in this second category. The final category was when the Gladio network was allowed to stage a full coup like in Greece or Turkey and openly rule crushing all opposition. There is probably no country that is not at phase one, with fascist elements present but the effects invisible. Many are in phase 2. Only those in phase 3 are fully fascist. Likewise, with the Underground Reich, it is matters of degree. Some organizations are interconnected with others and have a great deal of influence, while others exert full control. The vast scope of the Underground Reich’s influence is formidable.
- The Hitler Legacy, Peter Levenda
- The Beast Reawakens, Martin A. Lee
- Martin A. Lee Interview I
- Martin A. Lee Interview II
- Martin A. Lee Interview III
- Martin A. Lee Interview IV
- CIA at 50: Still Hiding Its ‘Original’ Nazi Sin
- SPLA Review: The Beast Reawakens
- Interview With Martin A. Lee
- Introduction to The Beast Reawakens
- On the Trail of Turkey’s Terrorist Grey Wolves
- Germany Goosesteps to the Right
- Dreamer of the Day, Kevin Coogan
- Gold Warriors, Sterling and Peggy Seagrave
- On the Trail of Turkey’s Terrorist Grey Wolves
- Ukraine’s Inconvenient Neo-Nazis
- Ukraine Merges Nazis and Islamists
- U.S. House Admits Nazi Role in Ukraine
- Newly Declassified Files Confirm United States Collaboration with Nazis
- Eagle and Swastika:CIA and Nazi War Criminals and Collaborators
- CIA at 50: Still Hiding Its ‘Original’ Nazi Sin
- The Path to 9/11 (Part 16): Robert Zoellick, Bush’s State Department & the German Marshall Fund, a Nazi Industrial Front
- FBI Document: White Supremacist Recruitment of Military Personnel since 9/11
- The M-Fund: American Deep State, Deep Events, and Off-the-Books Financing
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- Exhuming the CIA’s Nazis
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- The Continued US Defense and Support of Nazism at the United Nations
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- Pax Americana and the Weaponization of Space
- Operation Paperclip: The CIA and the Nazis
- ‘America’s Nazi Scientists Fulfilling Dream of Ruling the World’
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- Operation Paperclip: CIA’s Denial of Protecting Nazis is Blatant Lie
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- League of the South – SPLA
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- Vanguard America – SPLA
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- Identity Evropa Website
- Identity Europa/Evropa: Linking Dugin with US Fascists
- Identity Evropa
- SPLA – Nathan Damigo
- The Traditionalist Workers Party was established as an offshoot of the Youth Network. They have the same logo as Dugin’s Eurasian Youth Moment.
- Identity Europa: Linking Dugin with US Fascists
- Political Murder Klan Style
- Partial List of Names of Members of the US Government with the KKK
- White Supremacists Infiltrating US Military
- How Neo-Nazis and Gangs Infiltrated the U.S. Military
- Why the U.S. military is ignoring its own regulations and permitting white supremacists to join its ranks.
- The neo-Nazi movement has had a long and tense relationship with the US military
- The Deep State: Germany, Immigration, and the Fascist Nationalist Socialist Underground
- Democracy and the Secret State: The Deception and Terrorisation of Populaces from the Era of Gladio to the War on Terror
- Al-Qaeda: From Serving Hitler to Serving the CIA
- Al-Qaeda, NATO’s Timeless Tool
- Dugin’s Fascism and the Hijacking of Left Anti-Imperialism and Muslim Anti-Salafism
- History Commons Chronology of Alliances Between the Muslim Brotherhood, Western Intelligence Agencies and Al Qaeda
- Salafism And The CIA: A Winning Formula To Destabilize Africa, The Middle East And Russia
- The Rise of Secular Liberal Takfirism
- Syria And Libya: The Role Of The CIA, UN and The Muslim Brotherhood In Creating “Failed States”
- Salafist Radicalism in Africa
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