Mercedes López San Miguel and Felipe Yapur
Evo Morales does not go unnoticed and wherever he goes he generates a stir of support and solidarity. His visit to the editorial office of PáginaI12 was no exception. All of her workers waited for the end of the interview to give him their support. The president of Bolivia, deposed by a bloody civil-military coup, believes that it is possible that his party, the Movement Toward Socialism (MAS), could win the elections again. To this end, he works from Buenos Aires as the head of the electoral campaign, contributing his experience of a life of militancy and as a leader for the last 14 years. As a political refugee, he affirms that he is in search of the best candidate who will guarantee unity.
How are your children?
We have been in permanent contact since I arrived in Mexico. They had the opportunity to leave for another continent through the offer of several ambassadors from other countries. However, both Evaliz and Alvaro decided to come to Argentina and secured their presence. Now we are moving beyond the fear of those days. Everyone was hurt, but especially Evaliz. Not Alvaro because he doesn’t get too involved in political issues. He only received a few threats where he lived in the city of Cochabamba. Alvaro had the possibility of continuing his studies in Europe, of going to Italy or Germany, but he told me that he wants to stay here and I thank the Argentine people and the government for guaranteeing his presence and security.
Were you afraid for them?
Evaliz was in danger. She was very interested in politics, but she is now a little frightened. They threatened her and through the networks. The one who suffered the most was my sister because her house was burned down, but now everything is fine. We keep in touch by phone.
Is it because of this context that she decided to leave Bolivia?
I endured so many things in the past as a coca grower, union leader, deputy. I was arrested many times! At some point I commented that in my political career I only lacked asylum and refuge and now I have completed them! And all for being anti-imperialist. All for our great homeland, for fighting for the humblest and for dignity and sovereignty. And since I endured so many trials, from my time as a union leader where the neoliberal presidents prosecuted me for terrorism. I was expelled from Congress in 2002 at the instruction of the U.S. Embassy. The plan was to prevent me from running for president. History repeats itself for left-wing presidents, for people’s presidents. In these times there were all kinds of coups. They did everything to me but I can tell them that I am not afraid. In the days before (the coup) we had meetings and several ministers advocated saving my life. They said it in tears but I understood that it was necessary to save my life. The truth is that all those days in November I was under the magnifying glass of the United States.
Can de facto President Jeanine Áñez make it difficult for you to return to Bolivia?
I don’t know if I’m a former president, maybe I’m still the president because my resignation text hasn’t been approved or rejected.
Well, formally you are still president because your term ends next January 22.
It’s true, that’s why I and the Constitution have to be judged for responsibilities. That’s why when the de facto self-appointed president speaks as if she were a prosecutor, she doesn’t understand and threatens to arrest me. They always said that they respected the independence of the institutions. But now they are asking for arrests.
This was a coup instigated by the U.S. where the participation of the armed forces in the traditional way attracted attention.
I believe that the United States does not forgive us for having an Indian president who guarantees political stability, economic growth, poverty reduction, nationalizations. In times of neoliberalism the oil revenue was 3 billion dollars. From our government, between 2006 and 2013 we reached 38 billion dollars. I remember that shortly after assuming office we received the message that they were not going to invest in our country and President (Néstor) Kirchner called me: Evo, if you don’t invest I am going to invest in Bolivia. That was very important for a country that has 10 million inhabitants.
And now there is lithium.
That’s a central issue. We have demonstrated what we always said in international forums like the Sao Paulo Forum that another world is possible. And we have demonstrated in Bolivia that another world is possible without the International Monetary Fund. Without the capitalist system. Our crime was to start industrializing lithium. The mentality of the central countries is to take the raw material, that’s why we work on the production of lithium batteries. Next year, the production of 400 tons of lithium carbon carbon was scheduled. Last year we inaugurated a large plant to produce potassium chloride from where we exported 15 thousand tons to Brazil and a small part to Chile. There is lithium hydroxide. The plant was originally planned to include 41 plants, of which only 14 were lithium plants. Then, due to a market issue, we called for partners. It was awarded to China and Germany. So the United States were left out of this great lithium industry, which is the future energy, they will not forgive us. That’s why I say this was a lithium coup.
Are those contracts safe with Germany and China?
This government could do something about it. I even talked to Argentine technicians and told them that we should make an alliance with Argentina to industrialize our lithium. Four years ago, five years ago, Alvaro Garcia Linera said that the moment we have the major lithium industry as a state we are going to set the price of lithium for the world.
At that time you became enemies of the United States.
Yes, at that moment.
That’s when the coup d’état began to take shape.
Of course, they began to resort to fraud. What fraud are they referring to? You know that I come from the original indigenous culture that teaches us that the most important thing is not to steal, not to lie and not to be lazy. And we have incorporated this into our Constitution. So, to steal, to lie, to make them do fraud? No, I don’t understand, it’s not possible. In my meetings with the constitutional bodies I always told them to do their duty. I agreed to a report from the OAS. They made an observation of 225 tables and said that there was fraud because in those tables the MAS obtained 70, 80 and 90 percent. In the field we obtained more but they said it was fraud. I tell them that without those tables we still won in the first round. And the same thing was going to happen with the OAS report and the observations it made. The real fraud is the OAS report.
The opposition also said that if there was a second round you would be defeated. From what happened it is clear that they did not seek that alternative.
Not at all, but they would have lost anyway. Because here we are with the people or we are with the empire. Here we are with privatizations or nationalizations. That they say there is a third option is not something I understand because there is the right and the left. For me, that’s not politics. Finally they have become the right wing with that discourse.
Did the attitude of the Armed Forces upset you?
I was saddened by the betrayal of the Armed Forces. I couldn’t understand. It was an open conspiracy. I don’t understand how the military could say, “We are anti-imperialist soldiers and we support the process”. It hurt because we equipped them. When we got to the government I remember that we didn’t have planes or helicopters in the middle of a flood crisis and that Argentina helped us. Brazil, Chavez’s Venezuela, even Chile has helped us to fight the floods. There was only one helicopter, fallen a long time ago. Now there are 25 helicopters and I see on TV helicopters shooting at my brothers, killing my brothers. That is painful.
As campaign leader of the Movement Toward Socialism, how and from where will you campaign for future elections?
Well, we are already campaigning. We are holding some meetings. I really am very grateful to President Alberto Fernandez. Yesterday (Monday) we met with Vice President Cristina Fernandez. I listened to her recommendations, her suggestions. I understand perfectly my responsibility as a refugee, about what my political behaviour should be. To contribute my experience to the new politicians not only from Bolivia, but also from Latin America.
When you campaign without being a candidate, you gain more authority. You don’t always have to be a candidate to campaign. I’m not president, or maybe I am legally, but that’s a legal debate. I’m not a candidate. There are new male and female leaders, as well as other professionals. Before we were only peasants, but now there are other social sectors. We are organizing. Two thousand, three thousand comrades call me on the phone.
What profile should the MAS candidate have?
A candidate of unity, which is difficult to find. Why did Alvaro (García Linera) and I say that we will not be candidates? To unite Bolivia, so that there will be no confrontation. Sometimes I wonder why there is always so much fear of Evo. I was constitutionally qualified to be a candidate. Now it is difficult for any comrade to unite regions or social sectors, which includes the rights of the original indigenous peasant but also the rights of the professional middle class, which is another important movement. Someone with political commitment, with a high social conscience. Including with a great deal of knowledge and professional capacity. Our strong point was the economic issue. Who can guarantee economic growth? For example, from the moment we arrived in government we have never lent a single dollar from the Central Bank of Bolivia to pay salaries. On November 10 of this year, the dictatorship of Añez, Camacho y Mesa borrowed 2.8 billion bolivianos to pay salaries. Two things cause me pain: the deaths and the destruction of the economy. With a strike in the city of Santa Cruz, 3.5 million dollars are lost every day, according to the data we have. So we have to look for a candidate profile that can guarantee public unity but also the issue of economic growth, because it is our strong point. People are already asking that it would be good to look for and debate indigenous or non-indigenous candidates, sectors of the altiplano or the Valley or the East.
Does the candidate have to be indigenous?
It is important that he or she be indigenous, but also that he or she be a professional colleague. The indigenous vote is not being debated, it is a solid vote. But who can also capture the vote of the professional middle class, including investors. A company will continue to support you because you guarantee economic growth, because you guarantee economic stability. That is the debate we are having.
You said you met with Cristina Kirchner. What did you discuss?
She is a good friend with a lot of experience. I remember, for example, in her term as president that the U.S. and Canada had blocked the sale of wheat and flour for bread. Before, we couldn’t produce our bread in our country.
If there was no bread, Evo was to blame for the sabotage of the American empire. Then I called Sister Cristina to sell me wheat and flour. She sent me wheat and we solved it. I have a lot of respect for her, we talked about many important issues.
Was there a difference in your dealings with the government of Mauricio Macri and Alberto Fernandez?
I want to apologize to you for the fact that I am a refugee. I have nothing to say about the country’s political and economic issues. Excuse me. It’s out of respect for the status agreement that we have.
Within the framework of this electoral campaign, do you plan to live in a province in the north of Argentina in order to be closer to Bolivia?
We’ll see about that in due course. Here I feel safer thanks to the Argentinian government and the Argentinian people who amaze me and give me so much energy. To do politics you need strength and energy and that is given to me by people who encourage me. My centre of operation will be Buenos Aires.
In Argentina there is a very large Bolivian community. Does that provide you with more courage, with hope of being able to reverse the situation in your country?
We have held many meetings, there are even people who want to go on hunger strike. The self-proclaimed one knows that in Argentina and in the tropics we have won by a large percentage and that’s why they say that in that area and in Argentina there won’t be a vote. Then they say that Evo is anti-democratic.
The coup surprised you, didn’t you see it coming? Do you recognize any error in this regard?
It took us by surprise because neither the intelligence of the Police nor that of the Armed Forces warned about what was happening. At a cabinet meeting, two weeks before the coup, I said it was being prepared but nobody believed me. A woman, a domestic worker, got my phone and called me. She told me that she had heard in the house of her employers that the coup was being prepared. I reported that but no one has believed me. I didn’t believe it either, honestly. We defeated other coups. But there was a lot of money available for this one. For example, there were construction workers who earned 120 bolivianos but were paid 300 bolivianos to block roads. There was a lot of money, a lot of money. They surprised us and we placed our trust in each other.
Faced with this scenario, with so much money going around, do you think it is possible to turn the result around?
I imagine it’s going to be quite difficult to turn around, but not impossible. We must have international observers and I was thinking of the United Nations and the Carter Center, as well as some countries that are friends of Europe, but it shouldn’t be the OAS. My recommendation to the left-wing politicians, to the progressive presidents, to the leader who is with their people: do not trust the OAS. The OAS is the greatest instrument of the United States. We have seen it up close. We saw how the OAS bowed to the vote on the coup d’état.
What do you miss about the Presidency?
The work. Bolivia has nine departments and every day I visited up to five of those departments. We started at five in the morning until 11 or 12 at night. Once a minister told me not to work from five in the morning. It is inhuman to live like this, they said (and he laughs accompanied by Gabriela Montaño, his former health minister).
Translation by Internationalist 360º
